Ep07 Afghanistan Beyond the Headlines: Shabir’s Untold Story

Afghanistan is more than a country in conflict — it’s a place of resilience, culture, and untold stories. Shabir Kabiri shares his powerful journey from Kabul to the U.S., reflecting on what it means to call two countries home, the impact of decades of conflict on Afghan identity, and a message to those who only know Afghanistan through the news. Listen in as he challenges misconceptions and shines a light on the strength and spirit of Afghan culture.

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🔗 Links & How to Connect with Shabir Kabiri
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📍 Get in Touch with Shabir:
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shabir.kabiri/?hl=en
- X/Twitter: https://x.com/ShabirKabiri
📍Resources:
- Finest Supermarket (VA): https://www.instagram.com/finesthalalsupermarket/?hl=en

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:25 Leaving Afghanistan and Navigating Life in the U.S.
• 10:54 Afghan Village Weddings and the Unforgettable Taste of Home
• 22:39 His Take on Balancing Tradition and Blending In After Immigrating
• 32:36 Truth, Dare, or Debunk Segment
• 56:23 Reverse Segment: Debunk, Dare, Truth
• 1:01:53 Can the Afghan Diaspora Help Rebuild the Nation?
• 1:14:36 How Cultural Expectations Shape Opportunities and Limitations for Afghan Women
• 1:23:59 Afghan Models Paved the Way for Equal Opportunities
• 1:27:43 What Makes a Taliban a Taliban?
• 1:36:34 Afghan Culture Favors Arranged Marriages, Diaspora Embraces Dating
• 1:45:03 This Is The One Thing He Would Bring To Afghanistan
• 1:47:42 "From Here to You": Where We Answer Your Questions!
• 1:51:14 A Message from Shabir to Immigrants and Americans

Transcript

0:00

hi I'm Alexandra Lloyd a French Canadian who's called Birmingham Alabama home since 2,017 welcome to from where to here the podcast that celebrates the rich diversity of languages cultures and the stories that connect us all each month I'll sit down with inspiring guests from different backgrounds to explore their cultures languages and tackle some fun in our truth there or debunk segment whether you're a language enthusiast a culture lover or just curious about the world you're in the right place let's dive into your next favorite cultural adventure from where to here is independently produced by me Alexandra Lloyd crafted with curiosity culture and a little bit of coffee originally from Afghanistan Shabir Kabiri has spent nearly a decade in the United States first as a student and now as a professional shaping the future of technology his journey began with undergraduate studies from 2,012 to 2,016 followed by graduate school from 2,018 to 2020 before making the US his permanent home in 2021 a proud graduate of West Point the United States Military Academy he now works as an electrical engineer at Enderil Industries an American defense company his story is one of resilience cultural adaptation and the pursuit of excellence in a global landscape Shabeer thank you for being here to share your inspiring journey with us today Koshal Hastam Keshomai and Ja Hastid welcome thank you for having me and happy to be here wow very impressive how was the pronunciation oh great great what did I say did you you said Koshal Hastam could you repeat it Koshal has them kiss shoma in Ja has teeth I'm happy that you're here yes very good oh I like the way you pronounce the sounds cause those are some tough sounds the Ha is not in English so it's always tricky yes that's what I found out it is uh I think there's a similar word in German and the J in Spanish yeah I believe in another language as well so very excited to have this conversation with you today could you take us back to the beginning of your journey and share what it was like to transition to life in the US from Afghanistan yeah so I grew up in Afghanistan Kabul the capital and I moved to states in 2012 for college went to West Point it was a lot uh not only it was it was my first time leaving my country coming to the States a totally different culture new place but on top of that West Point is tough it has its own set of requirements so I found myself not only dealing with the cultural transition navigating my way in a new country with its new customs and traditions but at the same time um having to catch up with the military training requirements and other uh requirements at West Point so it was pretty hectic and tough at a time but I definitely Learned a lot it pushed me to uh I think when you go to a new country uh obviously you explore uh but in my case I had to do it like really fast I had to catch up everything uh alright a little side story so we learn English in both in school in internationally and also there are these private uh courses tuition courses that you go and you learn English so I I had done those and I showed up confident and I speak English and our training started the very first first training I was a medical training so important and the instructor starts and describes the training and I'm like I'm like what wait I don't understand what he's what he is saying because this was my first time a native speaker was speaking English all this time before if I had heard a native speaker they were teaching us English so they were aware that we are not a native speaker but this guy was just explaining I found myself alright this is disaster I cannot graduate West Point if this continues I like I panicked so yeah that was a how it unfolded for me and obviously cultural transition is a long journey I would say sure but the that was the beginnings of it how it unfolded was it the cadence of at which he would talk to you that was a little bit hard to pick up on I think so both the cadence both the the the style of delivery I feel like language is this orchestra of so many minute details that come together the hand gestures the flow the obviously the words itself maybe some slangs are in there and these were I had never um listened to a native speaker who was just explaining a different uh topic if back home I did have interaction with the native English speakers but the context was they were teaching us English so there was an understanding that I'm teaching English to a someone for whose native language is not English but here it was different but yeah I totally agree with you so I had to I even felt like eventually it was and again I'm not expert in languages but going through the journey my observation was in a way I had to tune myself to the pace exactly cadence to the rhythm to the sounds just catch the sounds and eventually they all came together and then I didn't have trouble understanding what was being said really nice now growing up in Afghanistan what moments or cultural practices stand out most in your memory how did these experiences shape your identity or perspective that you may even have have on the world yeah uh growing up in Afghanistan was an interesting amazing experience uh despite its challenges I mean I grew up during the time where we had the conflict ongoing there were attacks both in Kabul the capital in other provinces but despite those challenges we as a people still had to live and we just try to find meaning and continue our daily life some of the moments that stand out for me is my high school so a little background here and I try to make it short cause it can get longer my family my mom and dad first had immigrated to Pakistan in the 80s now um then so that's why I spent my early childhood in Pakistan in Peshawar which is the border city with Afghanistan but then in 2001 and after when the United States came to Afghanistan and then we got a new government the republic we moved back to our country Kabul so for me actually I went through a cultural transition back then cause it was very different coming back to my home country but I had never lived there actually we had visited during breaks but that was that was about it so I went to our public school and our public schools back then and I would say still is we had huge classrooms about 50 to 60 students in a class now that's a lot of students for a classroom so this idea of like we were we all sat very close to each other so that and and again I'm I'm I I think I I want to tie it back to a theme which is back then to family relative and closeness because the other aspect that stands out in my mind is being so close to your family and relatives in Afghanistan in Afghanistan we all live very close to where the the families are from or like or from where we originate I don't know why is that well I do have some theories but any in any case all of my relatives my cousins distant cousins uncles aunts their families we all lived I would say within 45 to an hour distance from each other so I then growing up in that in that environment is uh overall very positive and I think that has shaped myself too as being more family oriented uh really believing in the power of community when as a support network so yeah those are those are some memories well that's great yeah it's definitely good to have a strong support system and it seems like in your family in in your culture that's something that is highly valued totally absolutely and when you look back at this has it changed how you live your life in any ways um just have from having these memories and this way of living and now living in the United States is there anything that either you you hold strong to or that you completely pushed away in a sense I think it plays a huge role and I'm embracing it I know in this United States is also a very diverse country uh within the country uh like the southern culture some actually when I came here I noticed that the southern culture of hospitality families and community really that was something that I connected with so I do embrace that part of my culture where family is huge community is very huge and it may be an inner feeling that you're not alone it's not you don't have to deal with everything that life throws at you by yourself you can reach out to your siblings your family and it's a little so it's a little for example uh the time difference from here to Afghanistan it's 9 hours difference so if I want to talk to my cousin or my friend if I call now it's middle of the night for them I've noticed that has been a little challenge to connect with them but again when whenever there are occasions for example during Eid Celebration and during other celebrations that we have we connect and make sure that we are stay in touch can you share a memory of a local food or meal that was an important part of life in Afghanistan like what do you remember about it how it was grown prepared or shared in your community or in your large family yeah yeah OK I I may I may not be able to uh tell a specific dish but there's there's I think it I'm gonna be twisting this question if that's OK yeah that's fine uh food is big in Afghanistan uh we love food we eat a lot big on meats beef uh the meats that we consume are beef uh lamb uh goat chicken uh so here's my I and I think this will answer your question indirectly uh coming back to big families and relatives all living close to each other and so my village wasn't that far from city where we lived about 40 minutes drive we would have these marriage marriages engagements these events in the village mostly in the village now here's how it would happen you would have a lot of guests coming usually 1,000 people now that's a lot of people to feed yes so the way it would work um you we had these large pots for cooking so alright what is the menu on this traditional yeah village wedding you have Rice Village wedding yeah that's what you could call it that so here is the difference friends I would say um I'm I'm calling it I'm terming it village bidding but you could have the same setup in the city but in recent years there were two types you could go you could either go to um event facilities or like saloons very nice very beautiful these amazing uh decorations and big chandeliers hanging from the roofs in Kabul you could either go there expensive very expensive so have your wedding there then you don't need to worry about cooking the food everything you just pay the money okay or you could have it in in your house a lot of people would have the marriage in your house so you would set the guest in your own house in your neighbor's house pretty much the whole street would be hosting that event do you have like that long table going off from a house to another no actually you would sort of like set people in maybe you have a big living room or a big room a hall so you just like everyone everywhere and and then and if it was a village you would have these tents in the recent years we would have these tents and on open land and then you can send everyone on the one roof that was actually bit fun cause everyone yeah anyway yeah so and now coming back to how do you feed people so you have to cook big portions and what are on the menu rice uh beef and the beef was I would say like beef stew with sauce uh there has to be one side vegetable now cooked now that could be cauliflower that that could be okra that could be uh spinach there has to be sort of that was understanding there would be and that's how it was there was a one side vegetable then a salad um uh then a plate of fruit and I think I'm not missing and then French fries too so that's the menu and you have to prepare this for 1,000 people at your at your house or the village how do you do it alright so you have these uh you do hire a a chef uh local chef from the village who who cooks for everybody's weddings and he's very famous either he's popular people like his cooking or he has a bad reputation like people know from beginning how what to expect oh he's the chef oh then it's gonna be good so the first they they make the fire they bring the woods uh they it's all pretty much they make sort of like mini fireplaces couple they burn the uh wood and then they put these huge pots on it then one pot is rice then one is meat one is for frying the French fries and and again the beauty of it is the the whole people who work are just like your friends and your relatives everyone knows each other everyone is yeah like it's not like you're hiring someone besides the chef and even you may know the chef too it's probably a distant relative but you're paying them that person you're paying cause he could just easily go to another event now yeah that is a sort of like one story and here's the reason why I am mentioning I'm sharing this it's very interesting life in us can be hectic it's it's still we're my family and I are resettling in challenging trying to get accustomed to put our life together here so sometimes life can get so hectic almost like these memories fade away but when I pass by a location where I feel I smell burning wood instantly I think of these these village weddings and I it and I feel so happy for that moment it just brings all the memories back wow and I've witnessed I've experienced this many many many times that a burning wood smell brings me the the memory of those wood burning under these big pots to cook the meat would you like us to start a fire no I think we're good oh I love that you need one of those candles sending candles that yeah that smell how did your sense of identity shift when you found yourself in a new country and were there any surprising challenges in adapting to American life I would think yes yeah um and I'd love to hear you on that totally uh I think this is such an important topic my experience has been a little different than normal but I'll go through my experience maybe I'll make some comments generally so I first came to this country and directly went to West Point in a sense my pretty much day and night life was West Point in a way I was pretty much secluded from the whole US culture and for those who don't know can you explain briefly what West Point is absolutely West Point is the United States Military Academy located at west point New York it is a military academy for it it it is a 4 years college program but with addition of military training and athletics training and literally you live in that island a beautiful island but you live there and as a cadet when and the students are called cadet it's a term for the military student as a cadets we would we called it the Grey Prison it's all a grey a castle it's it feels like a castle it's all grey beautiful amazing but we called it the Grey Prison cause we were stuck there you're there all the time yeah mostly we you could take leave but you had to like request go to your commander you need to sign on something then you're allowed to leave the garrison like you could not just walk away so so yeah that was my experience now in terms of identity and being an Afghan the reason my experience was different first the environment was different but then I was an international cadet from Afghanistan I had my country's flag on my shoulder every day when I went out we had different uniforms the days that we had the combat uniforms on the flag goes on that uniform but it it and and also my name badge name tags at Afghanistan so in a way I felt um a weight of responsibility not negative I would say in overall I think a positive thing but may have been a little too much to handle but so I found myself representative of the country and I made it my goal to talk to my friends and classmates about Afghanistan and and tell them and when you do that I think if now I'm coming back to your question I always go in these long no this is great this is great I think now coming back to your question as I was doing that and I think when you do this as an international expat student or moving to new country then you say like wait a second I better go do my homework I need to learn about this maybe a story maybe my history so I could explain it well to others that was very interesting dynamic I'm not only I'm educating others but I'm learning more had I had grown up in Afghanistan I might not I might not have thought about alright what does it mean to be an Afghan what is it what is our tradition and culture but it's actually when you leave then you think back alright what is it yeah I think you even get more involved afterwards absolutely I I I can see that and that what you share resonate and I know for me I've never been as proud of my roots as after I moved to the United States yeah and I'm curious if you don't mind me asking what were some of the top questions that you would get all the time about Afghanistan cause you said you mentioned the history but was it really history questions or what were like maybe one question that you often will get asked from people that didn't know when you first got here that you had to educate people about yeah I don't think I remember a specific question given the time we were all sort of like West Point cadets just very busy and trying to survive West Point I think mostly we would talk about the geography that's fun thing to talk about where is the country located I think what happens is unfortunately the media only covers one side of a topic or let's say in this country Afghanistan the media would only show you that there's only this violence happening only one small segment or side of the the uh society or country I guess more of our discussions were around other things like no there's there's actually before the war it was actually very prosperous there is this rich tradition of the hospitality I remembered telling my uh classmates about Afghans are really hospitable people guest is perceived like um what is the term we would call it like we would say Mehman dost khudas guest is the friend of god very much up there like oh it's it is guest like you gotta like put the red carpet and everything like it's not has it can you can't take it lightly I'm sorry I didn't have a red carpet for you actually I could comment on that too I was proud that we are hospital and we are in our way but when I came to the US and I experienced the hospitality here I said wait a second this is different but people are really hospitable here too like how they invite you to their house it's and they all they literally treat you like a family member that was very new for me cause we don't do that we are very hospitable but we we treat you like royalty but you are royalty you're not a family member so you don't get too close exactly there's there are boundaries there's formalities there are like everyone is very polite the children kids are in their best behavior we have guests at her house but here it's just like you're part of the family and I loved it actually another thing about for me about cultures are like and that really helped me personally in my growth I would always um thank to myself what is the positive and negative like what is positive and negative in my culture what is positive negative for example in this case in the US culture so in this case I I would say I would side to the hospitality of the American way just like feel home and like yes the southern hospitality too absolutely I think what you shared bring another perspective that I'd like to hear you on I think that the more you stand your bubble of what you know the more chances you will get up one day and find everything around you being the same like you you kind of become in that sea of sameness but I think there's a misconception that immigrants should blend in at all cost and adopt everything from the new culture what's your take on how immigrants should preserve their roots while also integrating into that new country yeah I am a believer in diversity and I think differences makes makes us strong bringing in different ideas I think in everything the balance is the aim that we need to strive for so in in this particular case for immigrants obviously the answer is not like either this way or either forgetting your roots and embracing everything your new home host country or home country has your future home country or not being open to new experiences and sort of like restrict yourself to your old habits and traditions in my mind they're both wrong uh you have to strive for the balance and the balance would be you are coming to a new country you are celebrating the everything um what what this new country offers you I mean then what was the point in moving in here this will become very subjective for me uh for example I am an Afghan from Afghanistan then I I'm here in the United States aspiring to become a US citizen someday and I have my younger siblings who I've been in the country for 10 years but they are here new so it'll be good to test my theories on them but here's how I would go about thinking about it learning about the US history is very important although a short history but I think it's a very rich very interesting and very dynamic history so it needs to be celebrated it has its dark spots dark times but even those are lessons you need to read them especially Birmingham Alabama sure sitting a very historic place here too so that is one I wouldn't say you have to be find yourself forced to for example cause some of the celebrations may may have a religious background so those ones maybe for people like my family who come from a very conservative country may not be open right now to that level of change but then Thanksgiving that has a historic background that needs could be celebrated so I would say history some of these major celebrations that are just part of the American culture and then a big part of that would be being engaged in community making friends from uh diverse pool of uh background of people but uh certainly in this case with Americans people from all the races who have who have lived here for generations so that's one side now at the same time you it is very important and imperative to not forget your culture your roots and traditions because I think if you do that will be lost both for you and for this country because you're not bringing that versatility of idea in that richness and traditions here again I am a believer that differences diversity makes something rich so it has to be celebrated both ways and now you celebrate what America offers and I believe the Americans America needs to celebrate your tradition in that regard yeah absolutely and are you able to celebrate the traditions that come from your background cause you live you mentioned Birmingham uh cause yes we are in Birmingham but you also live in Atlanta are you able to celebrate your own traditions living in a place like Atlanta uh you do absolutely you can and I think in all major cities uh for example one uh Celebration is the Nowruz Nowruz is the first day of the year in Afghanistan Iran Tajikistan and maybe uh a couple of one or two other countries but these are the main countries there I know there are other communities who celebrate this but this festival like the New Year of Afghanistan and Iran now rose uh is um celebrated bigly in Virginia where there's a larger community I'm not aware if there was a Celebration in Atlanta but if I had looked I'm sure there was so yeah you you can do and that is nice about it I think that's what makes America great in my mind you have so many New Year even just on the New Year Celebration there's so many like the I think the Chinese yeah the yeah all which last more than one day the train OK great cause actually we got to celebrate OK that's that's fun now yeah yeah yeah yeah oh I love that and I mean if you don't have the opportunity to have a festival that is celebrating that culture of yours probably finding a small group of people might be a a way to to do that so you've been to Virginia cause I know you have some family in Virginia so is that how you have been able to celebrate it there oh yeah there is a larger community there uh for example the Eid Celebration so that Eid Celebration there are two Eid celebrations and you spell it E I d it's an Arabic word means happiness and it it has a religious background it's the two main Islamic celebrations and those are very important for all the Islamic countries and like from Afghanistan now we we get to celebrate that here and we get very lucky and happy when it aligns with the weekend or Friday because we get Saturday and Sunday off so you could just take one day uh work off because back in our home country we get like uh for the first Eid there's so there's a small Eid there's big Eid there's one way to differentiate them they're not necessarily called small Eid and big Eid although the big Eid is literally called Eid al Adha Adha I believe means great the great Eid anyway back home for the one Eid we get at least three days off national holiday for the other one we get like five days so it's more fun to celebrate it in Afghanistan but we get to celebrate it in our new home yeah in the United States as well I would like to share this with your audience uh when it comes to Afghanistan Virginia Northern Virginia and then Northern California interesting both northern are the um biggest I would say center of Afghan community like those two locations have a huge number of Afghans uh residing there then I know in Houston Texas there's a fairly uh large Afghans and then they're spread out in everywhere I'm sure their families in Birmingham and Atlanta and everywhere oh very cool and please educate us me included on the Eid when does that happen or why is it so important yeah yeah yeah totally the first eid uh happens uh and it's also called Eid Ramadan Ramadan is the one month of fasting um so that eat happens right after it um makes sense you're fasting for the whole month it's really tough and you did it now it's time to celebrate you it in what's very fascinating about it and even I think that this small aspect gives you tons of joy because for the last month you haven't had breakfast you had forgot how does it feel to eat and drink during the day cause you cut off eating drinking from the sunrise even like from the first uh from the dawn it's not even sunrise the dawn the first light in the sky it's cut off you cannot eat or drink until the sunset the last light in the sky so after a month when you have breakfast you're like yes you don't eat anything there's no breakfast there's no lunch there's no dinner it's just from sunrise or dawn to sunset which it which depending on season could be 10 hours could be nine hours let's say 12 hours in this 12 hours you cannot eat or drink anything not even water so it's full fasting and it's tough so and then in eat that is the first day that after doing this for a month you eat even better than that it's Celebration so uh you go to families houses and everyone has the dry fruit the deserts and everything so not only you can eat but you eat the best things good good and it's just it's only it's just a Celebration on that regard too then it's also tradition to wear new clothes if you can afford like it's literally uh I mean you're required as a tradition I don't think there's a there's a religious law about it but if you can afford you have to buy new clothes so it is literally a new pair of clothes you put on so that also gives you a feeling new clothes then seeing family and friends and eating wow so what a great time yeah as far as the the clothing what does it look like is it does it fall within certain standards does it vary by gender uh no uh you can uh buy whatever you want before uh people would men would usually get the traditional men's clothes and ladies the woman would by their beautiful clothes but now in the cities uh as in most of the young generation they buy jeans whatever is comfortable to you yeah yeah like the the today's fashion clothes so it it just has to be new clothes nice nice why don't we do a little truth dare or debunk sure so for each round you'll choose either a truth where you share a surprising cultural fact a dare teaching us a phrase in your native language which by the way is dairy or a debunk where you clarify a common stereotype about your culture which we all have a lot of stereotypes whatever culture we come from there's always something that people assume is true and is not so which one would you like to start with yeah I will um as an engineer I'm very logical sometimes too logical I will do it in order that you have it there truth dare debunk it's okay so let's truth dare debunk what's a surprising cultural fact that's actually true about Afghanistan Today's episode is brought to you by Birmingham Breadworks they've been serving up amazing sourdough bread European style pastries pizza soup sandwiches all made from scratch since 2,014 everything they make is fresh no preservatives no additives just simple clean ingredients their cafe is the perfect cozy spot with natural lighting warm wooden tones and art from local students and photographers it's perfect to grab a coffee or something delicious to eat plus they're big on sustainability as a gold level member of the Eat Earth Aware team stop by Birmingham Breadworks and taste the difference of fresh local food yeah so there are many things if you're someone who may have got an opportunity to learn about Afghanistan or had a friend or read I think there is good chance that you would come to learn about poem in poetry in Afghanistan in the Afghan culture and the reason I'm picking it for the truth that it is really central in our culture sadly not as much today as it used to but I'm just grateful that we have that history that that tradition let me expand to that a little bit there's a lot to cover but I think if I could summarize it like this is again like I'm thinking of like couple centuries ago maybe 500 years ago 600 years ago you usually have two types of poets one would be this um poet who is devoted to the poem to the art just for the sake of coming up with original poems that in every verse there's a depth wealth of meaning they were like they didn't care about fame or money they would be almost like um they did this for its meditation you could say and even are you familiar have you heard Sufi Sufiism no so Sophie in sophism you could say I would encourage people interested to look at it how do you spell it Sophie s U F I Sophie I think it is a small branch of Islam or at least a tradition of Islam but it's very popular and the idea is that you are this person who has let go of the worldly things you live for the divine you live for the spirituality you live for the meaning so this one category of poet and again I have to say this history that I'm talking right now explaining this belongs both to Afghanistan and Iran I'm sure other countries in our region as well but most of these poets that I grew up learning about them were either from Afghanistan or Iran now one were either these saint type people very devoted and the other were uh the poets of the palaces of the kings they would they would come up with smart and charming poets to make the king happy so they were literally they were the official poet of the king they were they were titles like they would be sitting at the palace like when they were guests they would come up or when there were battles they would sing for the battles I'm sure there's a equivalent in the Western Europe about it and all the history historically maybe something so given that poem and poetry has been a huge part of us Afghans uh in our in our school curriculum there's a language for example in the US you would have an English language or any other country you have your native language as a part of a subject in our case the dairy subject we had poems like 80% or 90% of the book was poems and these are all amazing poems I was not good at them initially I was good with numbers and things uh find poems very challenging some of my friends would get the meaning right away and I'm like I would be lost like what is the okay so you had to interpret them yeah because I I did the I remember at school we did have some poetry that we would interpret and give you know try to understand the meaning and often times I mean poems and maybe the majority of you think oh this is love poems or it has a a love connotation or topic were there other topics being explored or was this even one of them and did you have to come up with those at any point or it was mostly the interpretation of it there was a lot going on in those poems and then there was a whole literature of learning the principles of how these poems poets made the connections for example there were um like they would use I mean a very lazy example would be the the face of the beloved is like the moon so in a in a way like what what did he mean like what did he mean by the moon in this verse he meant this or he meant that they they meant that um there was a lot of layers of complexity some some were very good at it and I was I I just remember that I was always struggle and one of our assignments would be we would be like us like alright read the poem and now interpret it exactly and I would struggle like what does the point mean in any case um that is a huge part of the Afghan culture unfortunately this past five decades of conflict even I I feel I feel sad that I've been away from that part like hope I hope I'm able to reconnect back to learn go learn and be educated about the this tradition in my history that is the truth about the Afghan culture I would have never guessed that this was something that was omnipresent in the Afghanistan culture never so I'm glad to hear that it's actually very big in the region too and I really like that in Pakistan and India even today they have events where anybody could uh could come up and share their poems it's very good wow now they're not as good as people back in the day yeah that would make but they're still yeah I'm tell me do you have you heard of Haiku no what is that so Haiku we did that in school OK growing up and it's very short sentences right maybe there are some rhymes I just remember being called Haiku and it's some type some form of poems exactly I believe yep oh that's interesting yeah yeah there are multiple types there are one that are short verses there are one that are long there's so many variety there let's do a dare sure dare to teach us oh okay a phrase or something in your own native language yeah uh I'll go with something very easy I'm uh I always I I like the easy stuff maybe I'm lazy simple yeah like when I mean when I when I so okay that is one thing I came to learn that board games are very popular in the US some of them are very complicated like there's so much rules to follow I'm like what is this what are we doing you're not a fan they just give me something fun which is like I don't have to think about maybe yeah for what I do for as a my profession engineering there's so much thinking in there for my games I don't want any thinking to be involved I need a break that's how I think yeah that's fair that's fair I'll go with something very simple and I'll teach you that is actually would by I think it's even so simple for you cause you started with that sentence in the beginning but alright it is Salam sub Bahair ooh that last that last part right can you say it again sub Bahair Bahair sub Bahair Salam sub Bahair Bakhair Bahait there's a so if I could alright I don't know you know I'm very visual and I yeah I almost like I will spell it in English that's what he that's what we do okay say it one more time so like Salam salam like s a L a m Salam sub I would spell it s U B H by the way we don't we don't use English alphabets to write our language that makes it even more difficult yeah good for you I'm knowing the but it's a yeah I mean you could use the alphabet to make a sound yeah that's what I'm doing so so that bahair b a h I r now K H is KH right and the ending is a I r air wow this is tough oh it's tough oh I think wow it's the sound of the ha which I think makes it a little tricky try this at home try this at home so anyway that means yeah what does that mean alright that means now that you made us all say it Salam is Arabic it's actually part of a longer greeting which is assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh that's Arabic now we have that sounds nice see we have made life people's life easier we have made it Salam salam um that means like greetings peace now that is common in every Islamic country that you go Muslim country now sub Bahair means good morning sub is morning and Bahair it it translates to good technically it translates to like I wish you a good sort of but anyway that that's what it means yeah nice round 3 what's a common stereotype that you hear that you like to debunk for us today yeah again a lot to pick but what I will pick something that uh sadly media just I guess the nature of it that's how it portrays that maybe that is the only thing in Afghanistan the agriculture or the growing is only Poppy and opium those are the two plants and I'm not much familiar with them I think those two plants you grow them and then they can be used to make uh drugs I don't know what kind of drugs but some nasty stuff it happens and again that is also something a consequence of the conflict these decades of conflict but that is not even 5% of what agriculture is in Afghanistan again there is a rich history and tradition there farming especially subsistence farming where you grow everything to be fully self sufficient that has been even today that is happening in Afghanistan like my grandfather was a farmer we had grape vineyards I would say probably like 90% to be fair 90% of Afghans their first one generation above them their parents come for farmer they were in the farm like both my mom and dad grew up on a farm and when we say farm it's mostly the agriculture exactly it depends on what you have in different parts of Afghanistan Afghanistan has a diverse climate the eastern part of the country has more you could say like a Mediterranean almost like mild mild uh winters and somewhat hot and humid summers anyway that's how uh it is more green on the eastern um the northern where mostly my where sort of my village aligns geographically that is a mix of a mild climate in a little harsh winters a lot of mountains then in southern and western part of the country you have a little bit of a Sahara and a desert arid climate so it's very different um diverse climate now every province could grow different things now the northern province where my village is close to Kabul the capital grapes are huge like actually my village like do they make good wines no we don't make wines okay haha haha oh yeah also please no just uh notice how he mentioned province and not state so that's something uh we were talking I guess yesterday and yeah you mentioned this and I thought ah because I got the comments of how cute it is that Canadians call their color areas in our country provinces and you actually do and no it's not cute it's just how we call them cause I'm in America we call them states I thought that was an interesting fact I'm sure those are and there are like Alex a variety of grapes and in fact actually the land is very fertile my dad uh after he retired from his business handed over to my brother he bought a piece of land and I think he has like gosh like 15 types of fruits like 10 types of vegetable it's a small piece of land what kind of fruits and vegetables you mentioned a few already but a dozen kinds of grapes all different types taste differently then he has um cherries he has pears he has peaches that are so good juicy he has apples uh he has almonds which I think falls under the obviously fruit and becomes dry fruit almonds in vegetables he grows anything like we have our own tomato hat sadly tomatoes like onions potatoes we were I bring this up that's how farming and agriculture is literally ingrained in our society in this recent opium and Poppy cultivation which has shown up in the media for the past 20 years which has happened in part of the country and it still sadly takes place it's not even a small representative of the whole tradition that the the the nation the country has and we never I mean I've never heard about this yeah now the question is are peaches best the ones that come from Georgia or from Pakistan or or yeah would you say Afghanistan yes Afghanistan okay uh hahaha I am biased I think our okay I I mean I would there's a lot of things that I take America's side and I think I call it what's good what's not good fruit when it comes to fruits I think we are at just another level I don't know why but yeah why it's really good actually Afghanistan's geography is really interesting we don't have a lot of land that could be cultivated that you could grow plants it's a lot of mountains the Kabul the capital is surrounded by mountains you have a lot of uh locations where it's it's like a valley if you have a piece of land maybe in this valley you get the river water and this river water is fresh from the mountains that the the year before it snowed then the snow got stored now it's coming down with minerals from the mountains it's those minerals are I think very rich and so yeah very we have very limited land fertile land but the ones that we the the amount of land that we have is just like when you grow something in it it's very tasty and delicious mm hmm maybe that is the reason can imagine now I have brought you these um almonds wow these are from Afghanistan nice now another nice thing is it's fascinating with the Afghan community growing up in Afghanistan they are exporting a lot of things that we could only have back home so like fruits dry fruits are coming rugs are coming and many other things it's great it says almond kernel Logari Logar so logar is halal right ha ha ha just I mean dry fruit is gonna be halal oh is it right ha ha ha I guess it's uh yeah that's marketing right there right so some people may I mean I know it comes from Afghanistan so yes but some people may not know uh this is pistachio okay I'm not gonna be trying now cause I don't wanna crunch in the mic but I am looking forward to trying that now pistachio is more in our eastern provinces um and I haven't seen a I assume it's a tree I haven't seen it sadly I haven't travelled my country so the pistachio you haven't seen I I don't know how it grows I don't know if you I don't know if you know no but these look more brown these pistachios was yeah then and the shape is slightly different more elongated than the typical pistachio I see here that are more rounded and greener yeah so that's interesting okay yeah definitely a big difference even the almonds are more elongate elongate right yeah yeah and this is a small sample we have so many other dry fruits but wow I could only get you these three the grapes yeah you're right right cause you said there's so many variants this is what we do alright we don't make wines but we make it this so here's what happens um oh these won't crunch I'm gonna open it can I open it yeah yes please um how does it make turn to that that color we first let's let's describe it yeah um for our audio listeners so it's kind of a yellow greenish right yeah so this is my favorite uh alright maybe I'll do some words here grape is anggur anggur anggur is grape then when we dry it uh to become a raisin like the black raisin like we all know right raisin uh that's kishmish raisin the word raisin is kishmish now to make it this so it's actually very interesting they they take uh the grape and and I'm alright this is the struggle of um speaker of English as a second language there's always words that you you cannot remember I don't know what is the word when you have uh one grape with it's with the main stick and the whole grape um grape is I don't know what is the okay the bunch of the grape I just call it the bunch I'm sure there's a word in my in my language and I know it's called kosha kosha yanggur or like the the the bunch of I don't even know what that is I'm sorry see that's very helpful struggles haha yeah um but yeah you take those and you put it on the roof so they have these um so do I special yes they have these special storage rooms that are rooms but they they have windows all on all walls like all four corners and the room is pitch dark mostly so you have these grapes you put them on the tie them on the roof and then as the wind blows from all directions it eventually turns to this wow and then we have it with our tea green tea in the morning or in the morning lunch after dinner anytime green tea after dinner yes cause it has a little bit of caffeine you don't mind that we have got used to it it doesn't work on us okay but yeah dry fruits are Afghan dry fruits are popular we export them to India to Pakistan to some other neighbouring countries and um yeah I think it's it's a rich part of our heritage and and we have walnuts we have so many others and they're really good quality because our land is very fertile there is no big these big giant companies who are maximizing profits who may add whatever additives or what not these are all natural so you flew these I mean not you yeah somebody but the store actually this is ordered them online this is store maybe I'm doing a promotion of this store yeah they're in Fredericksburg Virginia where my family is they're called Finest Halal Supermarket right they're pretty good find them on Facebook Instagram and TikTok even see they are pretty active so you know you get very authentic yeah dried fruits and nuts if you order there yeah they are importing like rugs and rugs not drugs everyone rugs hahaha carpets it does sound the same hahaha oh very nice carpets thank you shavera yeah and you mentioned I think because I've asked you before just offline if it's safe to travel or you know I love discovering new cultures traveling to new places what would you say to that to anyone interested in tasting those fruits well sadly we have to wait uh it is not safe to travel um what happened in 2021 the Afghan Republic fell and Taliban were able to take full control of the country now their regime or government hasn't been recognized internationally by a single country so almost imagine Afghanistan right now it doesn't literally fall under international law there's no government that has been recognized so that's a risk if you check social media YouTube actually there's been a number of um video bloggers and content creators that have traveled to country lately um for whatever it is I'm happy here's a sad truth I'm from Afghanistan I've only been to four provinces there are 34 provinces so imagine I have missed 90% of the country I haven't I have not seen it it's sad uh but at least these new uh these some people who is risky by the way that they're going for creating content they are for the first time able to capture and show the world some of the hidden beauties of Afghanistan nature wise so that is happening uh but I my advice would be that uh there's a lot of challenges and risks there it's not safe um you mentioned now there's content that's going out there to show the beauty of the country why has this changed well the fighting stopped this past 20 years there was ongoing conflict you could not pretty much the whole country was in a turmoil and it was I mean it was really risk of life to travel so now at least at least the fighting has stopped uh it is a positive sign but then there's so much bad that has happened one example was it is the ban of education for girls like after 6th grade schools are closed for girls I think if I'm not mistaken that is the only place on the face of earth that is happening and that is just unbelievable that's wild it literally it does not align and again if someone goes back studies the history culture and tradition of Afghanistan it does not align at all it is it is not who we are there are amazing women role models in the history of Afghanistan couple decades ago before the conflict country was so progressive and um yeah but it's sad a chain of events that has happened and that's where we are today mm hmm and I'd love for us to ping back on what is the reality of a woman Afghan woman in Afghanistan but also you have your mom and sisters just getting a feel of what it's like to be a woman either coming from that type of and Roman and then starting over or staying there um let's do some more truth there debunk and I wanna challenge your engineering mind and do the reverse so let's do another deep song okay what's a stereotype about Afghanistan that you'd like to debunk for us this segment will segway to our topic that we would like to cover about the Afghan woman a perception would be that Afghan woman may do not have a role in the society uh they are they have they don't have a say they are very secluded from the and I would like to debunk it and here are the reasons he said engineering mind that's interesting now I feel like the responsible as an engineer to be and I do find myself very methodical on things that shouldn't be no but anyway I think that yeah that's good so though true right now it's really bad women have been marginalized the ban on education the restrictive measures cruel harsh restrictive unimaginable measures of this current regime against women that are literally literally meant to erase the woman from the society which is going to be disastrous for the nation for the long run but here but here's my debunk part okay even though with all those harsh in limitations and restrictions against Afghan women Afghan women are brave courageous resilient and downright warrior and fighters they have they are not passive against these measures they have throughout history and this is not something new in the the last time when Taliban had power they had the same measures implemented that even that time they've always fought for them to be heard and for example uh when education is banned there are home schools there are these uh networks uh of women who are trying to support each other and just trying to find a way to be engaged isn't it risky to do something like that to create a small groups of women and to engage like you're saying there obviously there is risk and you're and I think that is the courageous part comes into play you're taking a risk against the authority that are against you and they're still at what cost exactly and uh your life or something smaller it's hard to say I mean you don't know uh it's it's so unpredictable but I think just taking that risk is commendable cause you could easily just give in like alright I guess not for me but no I'm I'm amazed by this insatiable drive in each Afghan girl woman to strive yeah they've been a fighter so so that that's how they have navigated they are navigating still the education now another aspect though the Afghan society has been very conservative in terms of uh women have restricted mobility for example to go out for education or to be uh active participant in the workforce yes but then um cause and I and I'm and I'm and I believe in this because I grew up watching it firsthand how my mom was a center figure of our family she not only helped my dad in his personal decision making personally but also even in his business like and I would imagine that's how most of the women in Afghanistan are they are the bedrock the center pillar of the family and in most cases although outwardly they have very restrictions um in the society but at least inside the house they have I would say earned their respect they are an equal partner to their husband they are sharing the struggle with their husband in cases Afghan woman have set up uh the craft work or uh making rugs or other um handcrafts at home to support their family or in most provinces this would happen a lot from my understanding back in the day where woman would be work shoulder to shoulder with men on the farms you do need labor and I I believe it happens today too hmm so that would be my debunk cause from media just looking at on the angle that women's are locked up uh at at least in this case it there's a lot of truth there the situation is really bad especially now but I I think what most people cannot know without growing up there there there's so much nuance there right there's so much um I hope I was able to convey that I don't know I think you just opened a Pandora box that's all I have to find myself I have no but it's good but OK I have so many questions well honestly for now I think the diaspora may have a opportunity so one thing alright I think this will be very important I'm glad I just thought about it to share with the audience United States went to Afghanistan in 2001 and got out in 2021 so that's like 20 years now there was a lot of investment in both sacrifice of blood soldiers losing their life and treasure the billions of dollars of investment the United States did so one way one may think or an American individual may think that what was it for then we we went in when we we got out was it all for Wayne now let me shed light as to what happened in this past 20 years millions of girls were able to go to school graduate high school go to college graduate college join workforce prime example is my sisters my sisters were the first girls from my family in generations like go back to history now that went to that completed high school like they got their high school diploma the first generation they went to college graduated my older sister the first person from my side of the family now that all happened because United States spent United States and other countries we had Canada we had all the European countries forces in Afghanistan and we had many organizations that work on the development of Afghanistan from not only United States from Canada from many European countries and other countries Japan still doing a lot of work many many countries around the world did amazing work fast 20 years and that as a result millions of and I myself an example I got to come to the States both both for college and grad school only because United States was there and they wanted to help develop the country so now what has had what has that given us it has given us a generation that is different both inside the country and outside the country now I did mention we should make a promotion about the movie The Rule Breakers yes I think right here OK I'm gonna drop that promotion yeah and if you haven't if you haven't watched it yeah yeah what are your thoughts it's very accurate that is an example of what has happened and that is an example of what was all this 20 years of struggle effort by the whole global community what was it for it was for those examples of rule breakers these young energetic courageous brave girls from the Herat province that became the Afghan robotics team got to the US and competed in the first Robotics Challenge in World 1 Awards and like them there are hundreds of examples I mean talking about the diaspora in okay now I remember the question you said what could be done yeah I do believe the diaspora has a responsibility to help the country this is our new country we are aspiring to become um I mean I'm my family and I are going through migration process it's gonna be multi year process hopefully someday we'll be American citizens so but again I think it will be we will be we are we are embracing this country we will be citizens patriotic and I think right now we are we are taxpayers I mean I I work for a defense company making sure that America has the best defensive capabilities my brother has a business back in Virginia and we we are contributing and we're proud absolutely we are grateful and proud for the opportunity to contribute and we will continue to contribute but then uh we also feel this responsibility to give back to Afghanistan and I think which is good for the whole back in Afghanistan and for the world in itself so um yeah I think first thing would be that the Aspira once they are settled in make sure that they are um united here in a way that they get together like when there is let's say uh natural catastrophe you make sure you are pulling funds to help there or fund program education programs or be a voice in finding a political solution back in Afghanistan and a lot of even my friends are actually a lot of my friends are actively doing that oh wow and it's really commendable wow yeah absolutely yeah okay let's keep going with a another dare how about that cause we're doing reverse now OK yes yes there is the one that I have to teach you right yeah teach us something well my first one that was supposed to be easy turned out to be a little difficult this one says no OK let me actually give a little background here we have many different languages I don't know the count many amazing beautiful languages but two languages are our official languages Dari and Pashto I can speak both but my native language is Dari so that's why I'm teaching you in Dari but Pashto is as beautiful and I love it just like Dari this other phrase is Kabul Bezar boshad be barf ne what does that mean may Kabul be without gold but not without snow we love it when it snows in the winter when it doesn't snow when it's a dry winter you're agitated where's the snow the mountains when it snows makes it so beautiful oh yes is it common to snow in Kabul oh yeah it's very common we do get very good snow in Kabul OK yeah Kabul gets pretty good snow um when it snows the mountains are covered no the mountains surrounding the city are covered in white the whole city itself but especially towards my village there are these huge tall mountains they're probably impassable like you must be the world's best hiker probably to cross it yeah they're tall and they get covered by snow so overall we love it when it snows people alright this is I would like to share this with your audience I think please this is the fun part go ahead in Afghanistan the homes uh roofs are flat it's not this triangle shape here so it's flat and then the roof is covered with a with a mixture we have a mixture of clay would you make from the soil and then you then you put I grass literally uh dry grass on it and again this has changed this doesn't happen nowadays in Kabul but this is our culture and tradition this would be and still the village houses will be like that we call it Cargull Cargull okay now I see I'm learning about my own car is grass and gill is clay oh so grass so you mix that put it you it's almost like you're putting asphalt on the surface so that's some type of paste or right exactly you make it look become like paste so it sticks and then you um cover the roof so that is most of the roofs are so when it snows you gotta clean it cause if you don't clean your roof is gonna I'm gonna fall down exactly then you have the dripping everywhere so when when it snows I remember and I this is something I experienced and I'm so glad grateful that I experienced this it snows we're happy and we wake up schools are usually off mostly we put on uh mom my mom makes the best breakfast eggs and everything we have our breakfast our tea green tea and and then we put on our warm shoes boots and take the shovels and go upstairs and clean clean clean if you have a roof if you were if your house architecture is as such that maybe it's a more like a rectangular shape you're good because you could as you're cleaning and you can like dump it on one side dump it left right on the street but if you have a square house which is sort of like our house you are in a little trouble especially with the snow in the middle cause you have to like push it push it bring it to the edge and then dump it on the street oh so that was a nuance we had but it was fun uh we would clean it we would take break yeah just good memories so that's why we say Kabul bezar boshad be barf nee we don't that's a long one yeah may Kabul be without gold but not without snow that's a cute reference ties very well in your into your childhood memory yeah truth family and tribe is really important in the Afghan culture uh again I mentioned earlier that everyone lives pretty close to each other that proximity in itself maybe you're not maybe that happy about it too cause you can imagine that I would say the it's fun to be very close but at the same time it can be too much you cannot miss those events alright what is your excuse if you're living 30 minutes away that is a very good excuse why did you not show up so you have to attend each one of these so yeah that is in there um yeah and given the so many of your family living each other there's every weekend there's something happening oh I bet there's an engagement there's a wedding there's a some other event there's a birthday every weekend so when is it gonna be your weekend so how many siblings and how many cousins do you have okay I have five younger siblings so I have from my dad's side let's do my dad's side first he has four brothers one one of my uncle passed away and five uh sisters so four uncles five aunts from my dad's side and from my mom's side five uncles and three aunts and then each one on average have five kids so now multiply and this is just my close family in a way they are my immediate family sort of and then we have other relatives that are like 2nd tier third tier it's fun it's it's great overall it's great the support network is amazing while this is very true um I would like to make a comment here but maybe this is will this this will more have like a more historic uh touch touch of it Afghanistan never had a I would argue a nationalism and what do I mean by that and we really need that I think every country needs I think we all Afghans are very proud of ourselves proud of Afghanistan especially when we leave the country we I found that we get along very well when we're outside when we are in the country Afghanistan with everything else that is rich and diverse the tribes are also rich we have multiple ethnicities and a lot sometimes historically there has been conflict within ethnicities or animosity I would hope as an Afghan to be more I would say more openness to other ethnicities and to other tribes in our country and I could make another argument here though as to why it hasn't happened Afghanistan never had a industrial revolution I would I would say and that that was that was I was so big on the agriculture thing it is still very traditional agriculture and if you're doing agriculture you're most likely in that region right it's only when when a country becomes industrial that you move around it hasn't modernized itself exactly exactly we don't have the infrastructure yet we were building some to be fair is being built under this new regime but with um uncertain future yeah we never had those good highways that we never had a train track in throughout history had we had those I in my I I believe had we had those infrastructure in modernization the country would have the people would have traveled dispersed to different provinces and that would have helped with the more nationalism I would say but with that not happening it's still more like this one ethnicity in one tribe and everyone is a little bit in their own you could say bubble per se um so yeah that is a comment there yeah and I hope there will be more of as much as I praise the good things about my country my heritage I'm as much very strong about um where there has to be criticism that is one area I think we need a lot of improvement where we need to get along with each other well whether we speak different languages we belong to different ethnicities we gotta figure out a way to get along with each other that's how we can save our country I'd like to get a better understanding of the culture and also living in an Afghan community more specifically as a woman and just understanding how it's like and I mean I think men play a role even as being an ally you have sisters I believe you have been an ally in your sister's life and continue to be but tell us in what ways do you think cultural expectations shape the opportunities and limitations Afghan women face and have you seen these expectations evolve over time yeah that's a a good question um I'll talk I like to talk about limitations first um there are limitations that the nature of conservatism the the nature of traditional Afghan um society puts on women one prime example would be restricted mobility I mean women do not have the freedom that men enjoy to go out explore go to different provinces places which instantly ties to workforce if you don't have mobility maybe your work location is farther from home so that uh limits your opportunities to work so those are some limitations that the society has put on on Afghan woman at the same time unfortunately where the events that has happened in the country since 2021 it is so I I would say the gravity of situation is so intense that to be fair sometimes we have even lost what it means to be optimistic in what were the opportunities that are offered that it because it's beyond imagination that as we just as we mentioned earlier that schools are banned against 6th grade it just it you literally struggle to comprehend it like how is that even possible anyway so that's your take on it now right and I want to comment there that there were opportunities before that obviously when we go very back there were more opportunities before the decades of conflict started in Afghanistan but in this past 20 years um we a lot of families like my family we supported we wanted um my sisters to go out and study a lot of families were really supportive of they were excited for the the their daughters their sisters to go uh pursue education and even higher education um I know the the last government the Republic had a official policy stance to promote diversity of allowing women to be on the workforce not only in the civilian sectors of the government but even in the military so that was my next question OK exactly like what industries or right right that was so great to see but then sadly it all it was evolving your question was how did you see it evolve I absolutely saw it evolve from nothing in those past 20 years to a very good thing um a good level but then sadly it's like your curve hit goes and then just like drops which started which happened when the Afghan Republic fell of uh fell in 2021 interesting what about other areas of someone's life like whether it's in terms of maybe clothing or you talk about the work which also like getting around in a car you might be limited any other areas that stands out yeah no that is a very very good and fair question again given how much as an outsider uh you are so limited with what you know about the country so there's a lot to cover here but traditionally in authentic Afghan culture being a Islamic country the rule the the clothing has been that you are um you have modest clothing but you can have your um you could have you should have your hairs covered so you're wearing a scarf but you could have your face um visible the there wouldn't be a veil over your face that is the authentic Afghan culture what I know of what I understand from my tradition and then uh yeah so but your then your clothing is modest so you're covered from head to toe except the face right and and again it's not very um but it's religious right it's it and it's a what I'm trying to get at is that it could be any clothing I will share some pictures and you can share to the audience the traditional Afghan dress which is colorful which has all these decorations designs that really represents us and that is a nice dress as a beautiful has a scarf and you find even today it is a actually it's a tradition that we try to maintain that in the weddings and ceremonies you have multiple obviously multiple not like men just one suit the ladies have multiple pair of multiple clothes you have all your nice and fancy and then you have the very traditional ones too and you change to that outfit as well so that represents us more as opposed to this very strict um clothing like black right one color that that that is not that is very there's a lot to unravel there but that it is that isn't really what truly aligns with this heritage of the country called Afghanistan coming back to evolving in this past 20 years which I experienced uh I saw there were less restrictions uh on on the severity of adhering to let's say a clothing standard in Kabul you could see Afghan girls are beautiful in Kabul you could see the girls uh wearing beautiful clothes um not they would it would still be very common to wear the scarf but it wasn't like fully covered just like have it and they're like yeah almost like not fully you could say like fully modern clothing but pretty close there so yeah it it was evolving but then um in 2021 just like stop now today there's a lot of there's too much restriction a lot of restriction and we don't know where it's heading now hmm and what about the diaspora and for the diaspora what does that mean in terms of for example clothing or other even limitations that you might think of yeah that is such a good question I have to say cause in in Alex as you do these episodes and you talk to other people from different countries and I'm sure you will find this this a unifying theme especially for country like countries like Afghanistan I'm part of a mentorship program where I'm mentoring a couple young Afghan students to pursue their higher education and I'm I'm mentoring this talented courageous hard working young lady and I was asking her and this is very common to many Afghan families that two of her siblings live in the States one sibling lives in Europe uh in it is it's it is um well the underlying reality is sadness we had to flee leave our country and finding a better home and more opportunities but but today Afghans are everywhere around the globe in Canada too there is a big community of Afghans in Canada in the States in Europe in many other countries so it is it is such an important question to now think like how because no matter what you do you will have your connection to the the the term diaspora you will remain a diaspora it's just natural how it happens so now the question is how it's going to evolve what is what will be the country's identity like how would I feel how would my siblings feel and how would I our offsprings feel so it's it's really my answer would be that it's really dynamic even I could only speak to Afghan diaspora who are in the States uh you could see a pretty diversity like some people are very traditional they want to keep it very um to their roots some people they tend more towards modernity if you could say they want to like uh not follow traditional um like norms or cultures yeah so you you could see that range which is beautiful to see like thankfully this country you are not forced to you have more freedom in a way I mean you don't have as much standards absolutely on how you should not yeah yeah you have the freedom to do whatever you want so now given when you have freedom then it will be interesting to see how it unfolds tell me are there particular moments or individuals in your life who have reshaped your understanding of gender roles within Afghan society yeah I mean I could make a comment here about history there are amazing role models in Afghan history uh and you will know about them there are many schools uh named on these uh for Afghan uh women's in uh uh our hospitals or facilities what comes to my mind is like one school is called Rabi Balhi a prominent figure uh there's a hospital very famous in Kabul called Malalae Zezantoon about a prominent Afghan woman I studied for a year in a school called Lisa Maryam Lisa is a French word oh Lisa Lisa is a high school yeah Lisa oh high school isn't it yeah oh I thought Lisa what does Lisa mean Lisa oh Lisa yes it's a French from France we don't use that word as much in Canada like in Quebec but lycée yes it is an actual French word uh le lycée which is a high school yeah yeah yeah so you got it I think the root of that word is French we call it école secondaire okay which is totally different and way longer yeah for some reason alright that school that I studied for a year because one thing your audience may not know that schools are we don't have co education in our high schools in Afghanistan even forever uh boys and girls can only be on the same school till 6th grade no way no not even till 6th grade I didn't know that the classes are uh separate like you have a boys classroom and girls classroom you could have boys classroom and uh girls classroom in the same school until 6th grade after 6th grade even the schools are separated you have a boys school and you have a girls school but I thought you didn't have any schools after sixth grade for what for girls oh this is now I'm I'm talking about the past 20 years and before yes sorry yeah OK and and this is only about public schools in the recent years which was a good move a good development that we were we were getting private schools for people who could afford go to study at private schools and there you had co education on the same classroom until 12th grade so that could be a you could argue you could argue that was a evolving towards more um openness and um shared opportunity and yeah sort of like evolving in our tradition but yeah so so oh OK see I went so any any current role models exactly my role model would be I should have just start with that why why I do provide these historical backgrounds but my my my role model is um the girl the woman of the Afghan Fullbright program I went through the Afghan Fullbright program and our cohort we called it there were amazing talented um fellow students who are female and I was just amazed by their each one had an amazing story how they got there I mean we all sort of struggle as a youth in teenage a teenager youth in Afghanistan but it's even harder for women so for them to be standing shoulder to shoulder with us on that scholarship program it was remarkable to just be in their presence where I count each one of them a brave and courageous individual yeah now let's switch gears slightly what makes a Taliban a Taliban and I've Learned that you can only say it singular not plural I didn't know about that because we use that term a lot so OK yeah so actually the word um Talib is means it literally means student the word itself is not yeah but what what qualifies a person to be a Taliban alright let's cover some history okay my Afghan friends will be mad at me I'm not good at history but hey I'm I'm giving it a try early 70s or 60s anyway we had our king we had kingdoms our last king was let's say 65 then uh one of the family members of the king his cousin actually uh had a coup uh so the king was toppled and he established the republic the Afghan Republic for the first time he was actually very progressive he wanted to the country to be on this accelerated path towards progress and development uh he was able to lead for five years but around that time I think this this is all about the Cold War drama as the Soviet Union was expanding the communism was expanding and at the time communism had had spread out to Afghanistan and had expanded there there were people who were uh sympathizers to communism and uh then then I don't remember um uh those figures but they had traveled to Soviet Union and became communist so then we had a communist regime or uprising that toppled the first president and from there the cascade of um I would say a vicious cycle of conflict in dark age started in Afghanistan to this day we haven't recovered because after then we would get a a government that would last 2 years then that will fall apart cause somebody else will take over there were coups after coups after coups and eventually in 1991 there was one president uh Doctor Najib he became very famous cause he was very patriotic I mean he also belong to the Communist Party of Afghanistan so some uh now at this time Afghanistan being a conservative Islamic country a lot of people uh stood up and fought the communism and they saw communism as a risk towards their identity and religion uh but that president um Doctor Najib oh he became president at the time now this is all history we are deep in the history now 1991 uh actually uh yeah 1991 92 I was born and I don't know is it was it 1991 or 92 when the Soviet Union fell apart around that time right around that time so when that happened now the government in Afghanistan was in a way uh an ally of the Soviet Union but Soviet Union fell apart gosh with what what happening in Ukraine today it's now we can thinking back it was such a monumental event that happened then and I guess the repercussions are still still played out on the global scale with what's happening in Ukraine and Russia today but when that happened so the the Doctor Najib's government was left without support and still it tried to really try hard to make um negotiate now the other side was called Mujahideen Mujahideen translates to um a freedom fighter in um Islamic countries or in Islam and the idea is that you stand up and fight um to preserve the the religion if there's a I guess the equivalent would be a Crusaders um okay I I don't know I'm I'm not sure okay me neither I have to be careful I don't want it's okay make her but I'm just thinking but that is the idea right they need to protect uh religion against communism now so then they were able to take over Afghanistan and this was 1992 when I was born uh huh sadly when that happened there was a civil war erupted in Afghanistan a very bad civil war Kabul got destroyed like really got destroyed literally were you there at that time in Kabul no my family had moved I was in Pakistan okay my family had moved the city became a rubble like literally nothing was standing uh but then uh now that happened their government lasted till 1995 96 given there was a civil war they were uh there was a vacuum of power now Taliban rose from the Kandahar province uh where Kandahar and Helmand where Ben was deployed okay uh Ben is our uh my brother in law Alex who served in the military right now from there the Taliban movement um rose and they were able to swiftly take over most of the country not all of the country there during their first time so yeah and I mean a very long answer to your question but they are a political movement but very violent and um then there's a lot of darkness there that in my in my yeah there's would you say it all would you say it all fall within the actions they take that makes them also in addition to the political government or it's limited to their ideology now here's uh what things get really tricky cause um throughout the history Afghanistan has found itself between global powers competing I could even I could go back to the British India the British when British was in India uh they ruled the whole subcontinent and Russia was a global power back then there Afghanistan was a battleground between these two powers fast forward to Cold War when Soviet Union was expanding and sort of aiming to go towards India that subcontinent in United States stood up against them fought Soviet Union on Afghanistan so we became a battleground again and in later years uh we have we have some very powerful neighbors in that part of the world we are we do have a border with China and a a country that is aspiring to become a global power we have a big huge border with Pakistan who is a nuclear power some people may not know Pakistan is a nuclear power country that is a big deal India is right there we don't share a border but India is a huge global player um they have not been active in Afghanistan but they are their presence is there Iran is aspiring to become a nuclear power like they are a big country in even today's world stage so a lot of our problems are not our problems I would argue it is the problem of the region that always gets tossed on us so I don't even consider the whole Taliban movement Afghan at all it is more the intelligence agencies of Pakistan and other countries who who have their own national interests and hmm yeah that's implementing their agenda so it's really complicated and and to be fair I'm at no capacity to unravel it cause there's just so much you do need a literally a political scientist and there are some very good Afghans one of my best friends actually uh who also went to West Point with me he's my best friend and I keep Mirzada he studied international relations and he he can help you maybe I need to have him on the podcast you have to have him because he knows what he's talking about I don't know you did a great job explaining yeah I could do the dumb version good no that that was very insightful thanks for sharing that given the expectations of society and restrictions placed on Afghan women how does dating typically work with Afghan culture how do factors like family influence traditions or modern change shape relationships this this is a very uh there's a lot to cover in this question let's dive in right uh because what I we discussed earlier we talked about diaspora that yes it changes with that so in Afghanistan throughout its history and still is it is mostly arranged marriage the groom's family go out and look for a bride uh I I don't know if you know in India it's the bride's family who go to the groom's family yes because I have seen that TV show right I think on Netflix a while back yeah I was watching that and learning about the Indian culture yeah and they hired a matchmaker from India that would work with the family of the bride okay so yes I knew so I don't know if there are other countries who is which is like that but in Afghanistan it's the groom's family like the boys uh mostly the the mother who who are always I mean the Afghan mothers are like so like any it's universal the mothers are protective of their children like doing so much sacrifice for the well being of their children from the young age till they are adult and even finding them their life partner so that's how it works uh now it still is working like that in this past 20 years there was a shift in with the girls having mobility and freedom to go to school in college where you could meet um where you have co education so you could meet boys or in a workforce so it was very fascinating actually to experience uh this change moving from very traditional to uh modern life in in this past 20 years the cities grew like Kabul became as like a big metropolitan city and this is such a fascinating topic like with today with the with the internet and social media the world is is really different and I'm sure every country is changing and and for the most it's for the best like before internet I would say there was some separation like every part of the world may have been its own corner so you could argue the internet is this um means of spreading out ideas innovation in today's Afghan youth have different aspirations so I noticed that changing but still given there's a lot of um even some dogma in Afghanistan that we are not allowed to talk to girls uh in my country really which is until when until forever until you you get married well you and your marriage is arranged marriage so so how does that work I have strong feelings here I think it's really unfair there's there's some very good observations here maybe I think like countries like Afghanistan where it's an Islamic country yeah and there are some restrictions that come from the strict observations of the religion and then we also have a lot of um societal traditions which literally doesn't allow us to like dating don't even like what is we don't even know what dating is like when we when we leave the country we learn about alright this is what dating is and I think that would be the case to a lot of like Middle Eastern Islamic countries so I I would just I wanted to just mention that because I think then what happens when the diaspora when they move to let's say United States or Europe or other country and obviously as a every human has this curiosity to I think it's it's in nature of every human to aspire towards freedom like no human likes restrictions put on them there's a rebel in each one of us yeah so when you leave your country like come to let's say United States so obviously you're here for new experience and you want to do what you were not allowed to do that but now you're at a disadvantage because you don't even know how to talk to girls yeah that's where then instead of being the mentor you you become the mentee and you or you learn you know from friends in the way right and you learn from others and kind of pick up on little thanks exact so it was just a it was just an observation like holy cow like there's so much to learn here about uh cause uh I mean when you grow up in this country like it's just natural like even in their high school uh the prom night you you you you may even start dating even younger than that so like you're accustomed to it and I I believe it's a good culture like dating is good yeah understanding woman from an early age it it helps with a mutual understanding from both sides but that is I would criticize now my culture like that this situation where we the two genders are kept separated it does we are we don't have an understanding like it it makes it um hard and I imagine even if you don't have any sisters what like in your case that was probably then the closest that you would get I guess to be fair there is other mechanisms which sort of like you could say that helps with social cohesion like given how it's family centric so it doesn't mean like you don't even talk to a female like you have your sisters your aunts your cousins your uh but I mean even then like family relatives one thing but dating somebody else is totally other thing it's just you have never done it and when you come to this country come to another country you have the opportunity to do it you may struggle a lot I can tell you from personal experience but anyway what were we talking about yeah so but but then there is also an evolution going on there right boat in Afghanistan that it was evolving sadly it hasn't stopped right now with this current situation and I hope there's a solution and we get back on a path towards growing towards a event essentially having more freedom not not being restricted but then it'll be fascinating to witness the Afghan diaspora as they are living uh leading their new lives in this country it'll be it's just I think fascinating to see how these cultural values now evolve here cause here you don't have that restriction so would you still opt for arrange marriage or you try to do love marriage so those two concepts are still very prevalent in our culture and they sort of like clash at times yeah it's kind of like yes the families are still like oh love marriage doesn't work don't do it arranged marriages are good is there a specific age you're supposed to get married um not not very specific uh it people used to get married very early back in the days in Afghanistan but I think naturally as people start living in the cities the struggle of city life you have to have a career sick imagine like before you were you you grew up on a farm you will become a farmer so you have your career figured out what is what else is there to yeah not much right so you should get married when you're 20 21 22 but now imagine you're living I'm giving an example of Afghanistan now living you live in Kabul you're not farming you better have a career so I think you go to college you may even have to go to grad school so now it has shifted I would say more it it depends now more on who what is your plan life plan and yeah what's your aspiration really uh huh before we move to the question of the guest uh this is something new that we're doing I really want to ping back and just ask me quickly just very briefly with your previous life in Afghanistan if you could bring anything from the US and bring it back to you to Afghanistan what would it be a lot of things I've shared with you and I've always said there's a lot of room to improve back for us back in Afghanistan I think I really appreciate the acceptance of difference here and I know there are challenges I will have to say like there's always sort of like struggles or nothing comes easy and here's what I mean to say by that I do as I as I mentioned earlier the diversity is great for for the United States and it needs to be celebrated but at the same time there has to remain a core concept of what America is and that has to be equally celebrated as well so in that regard um what what I really enjoy what I experienced here is that and we even touched it upon um when I talked about the hospitality of America what I experienced like you are just like part of the family like yes this is amazing this is something that I was was really new to me and we don't have it back in Afghanistan we although we are from the same country like even their uh the differences of being on a different tribe or even different village sometimes have become an obstacle for us but whereas here you're totally from different race background colour language yet still uh people establish relations right and they're willing to exactly to have you over for dinner right so like that hospitality is something that you'd like to bring with you sure and incorporate sure more yeah yeah and it's very tricky though um and again these are the society everything society societal uh I guess concepts are very tricky there's so many like these small layers complexities maybe it could be labeled as like this openness to change openness to diversity we don't have it as much as we should that would help us to be more uh accepting of each other don't focus on our differences rather emphasize on our similarities and we have ton of them we share the same land same tradition culture religion yet we focus on some differences and that has a stopped us to get along well throughout the history in the country hmm now it's time for From Here to you where we answer your questions so today's question for our guests comes from Zachary he's asking having faced some of life's biggest problems what has it taught you about tackling the smaller ones very good question wow that is that is that is a very good question indeed uh I mean yeah that question's addresses a lot there are large problems in life there's small problems I think problem is a problem it requires hard work you have to solve it there is a challenge and struggle in it but I would say like when you have tackled large big problems in life it absolutely makes you resilient you are definitely better equipped to tackle those small problems and here's I think why it's not that suddenly you're very good at problem solving and the small problems are just too easy to solve no I I would say there are still problems there are still hard needs hard work you have to solve it whatever that problem is but now at least but and it's not at least but the good thing is now you have a very larger um your scope your the horizon of your scope your perspective you have a big perspective that when you have gone through some issues in life so for example maybe we'll take a little cut turn here uh sort of like in 2021 when my family and I evacuated from Afghanistan to permanently move to the United States we had to go through an unimaginable struggle like when the whole country fell apart there was other chaos we had to navigate we had to make decisions instantly leave our everything behind our home our belonging just take a backpack go to the airport in the hope of finding one of those flights military flights and get on it and leave the country we end up ended up spending three days to navigate go back and forth all while there was so much risk uh I had all my documents from West Point on me which was huge risk that I was taking but we eventually went through and that is by far the biggest problem that myself and my family tackled it and eventually got into the US I haven't been gone through that has just expanded my perspective now and and today there's still a lot of problems that I face at work at other places but now at least it's not I'm not overwhelmed with with those problems because I am like alright why why if I tackle if I tackle those or at least I say tell myself there is so bigger problems than this I'm I there is I I'm not gonna worry about it too much yes it it does needs my attention my effort I still gonna put my effort to solve it but it's not gonna be it's not gonna wear me down at all cause you have gone through couple larger things and this is just like it's fine it's not the world is not ending it can wait or it'll be okay good for you to be able to do that to have that difference into how you tackle other challenges cause yeah challenges are part of life and they're gonna keep coming at you no matter what absolutely thank you Zachary for your question great question yes as we wrap up what message would you like to leave our listeners with about embracing cultural differences and connecting with others across borders obviously there are lots of messages to share but given the context of our discussion I do so I have sort of like a two fold message one for people like myself who could be immigrant who could be expat who could be international student from another country coming came to the US or and that's one and then my second message will be for Americans from any race people who have lived here for generations and are Americans so so my message to the first group people like myself would be while um we have to find ourselves here like it I don't think it'll it is helpful that I try and and that was that's what you mentioned too like should should you totally embrace here I I would say you just cannot do it even if even if you do like it's just not doable like you may say like alright I'm gonna like eat drink live lifestyle anything just like people do it in the States I think it will not work out well because um you did not grow up here and again it comes back to I think it's more rich that you be your authentic self so my message there is just to be your authentic self I think that is more powerful powerful that is more good that is more beautiful that is more natural that is very important cause if you don't be yourself it doesn't look natural and something that is not natural it just sticks out like people can sense like you are trying and it just doesn't look good and instead I think people your peers your friends whoever you interact with I think they would appreciate you to be natural just be yourself learn about as much as you can about this culture this country at the same time keep your roots be proud of them and share them so that's message one now my message to Americans yeah my fellow Americans would be you gotta explore you got to talk to people and here's what I think what is the point of having such an amazing diverse country where I could say like literally probably you could find a citizen of any planet on this world in this country and even you could argue any major US city will probably have 100 citizens so like that diversity and then my message would be to college students any major college in this country has an organization called International Student Organization I bet that organization has 50 at least 50 citizens from different students if you go four years and don't talk to an international student I don't know what to make of it why not why wouldn't I think because there's it's so much to learn I mean I don't know I if I was an American I would be like talking to anyone just like exploring I urge everyone to whether it's a colleague at work whether it's a friend in a club community whether your school just talk to them and learn uh sometimes they may not be they may shy away and not talk to you cause there's also some differences like the American culture is very outgoing and you have to like put yourself out there some cultures are very like you are like very up observe like your you don't it it's more reserved a little bit reserved that is the word I was looking for it's it's more it's not it's sort of like a little bit rude to be very very uh in front and direct it's always so maybe yeah that's why if it's not that they're not interested maybe they're more reserved so I would encourage you to go and talk to them and just like ask where are they from their language so yeah I think that will be very helpful to both parties cause at the end of the day we need to grow and we could only grow together uh celebrating our differences and that's makes this country powerful absolutely I love that's such a great message it reminded me when you were saying that I actually volunteered during college with the international students group awesome and there was a lot of French from France um and yeah it was just great we were going exploring the city and showing them you know how to get some paperwork done now this is a beautiful message thank you so much now where can listeners learn more about your journey your work or just connect with you sure um I'll do recently very very focused at work as myself my family makeup um start a live for ourselves here but I am available on Twitter slash X and Instagram and people can follow me I'm not active at the moment but hopefully someday I will be active and post and share about my life and journey and yeah very cool well we'll put uh the links in the show notes thank you Shabir for sharing this powerful journey of yours with us today what a privilege if you are inspired by Shabir's journey and want to explore more about cultural exchange and language don't forget to subscribe to from where to here and until next time thank you thank you for having me thank you for tuning in to from where to here if you enjoyed this episode be sure to hit subscribe leave a review and share it with someone who loves discovering new cultures follow us on Instagram at from where to here pod for exclusive updates behind the scenes moments and a peek at upcoming guests until next time keep learning keep connecting and keep celebrating the beauty of languages and cultures à bientôt